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Beverly Hills (Beverly Hills 90210), 20. oktober 2002, 17.30

izvirnik

We should break up. (nekaj takega)

prevod

Posloviva se.

razlaga

Fant in dekle, ki sta bila par, si izrečeta nekaj krepkih besed, nato pa ona izgovori navedeni stavek in odide stran. Prevod bi se moral glasiti nehajva, končajva, razidiva se ali kaj podobnega. Prevod posloviva se ne pove bistva, saj bi lahko to razumeli tudi kot trenutno slovo in ne kot prekinitev zveze. (D. Cekić)

Prispevek slovenskega predstavnika na Konvenciji mladih, 9.–14. julij 2002 v Bruslju

prevod

Europe in a globalised world
Today, Europe has a chance to change the course of it's future. We know what happened in the past and we have to except all the consequences that past brought to us. We are ought to see the mistakes in the decisions that were made, to think thoroughly about future steps into the future. Are we able to do that? Are we ready for such an important part of our common future?
Well, we surely do not have a good starting-point on which to base our future. Just think what has gone on in our past, which is not so far from us. Just fifty or hundred years ago the biggest battles were fought during the world wars. People died in millions, not just soldiers, innocent people were also killed. Why? Just to please some greedy old presidents and generals who wanted 'best' for their nation and Europe. Eventually everybody got sucked into the war-machine and there were none that were pleased with how the war got over. How can we expect then, that all our visions will come true, that all our wishes for our country are going to end up like we imagined them? We are facing a big problem; we are supposed to unite the Europe and we have to do it with the consideration of special needs of each state. That is hard. Let us forget the wars for a moment and think of the past. We will go a little deeper in the past of Europe. Since the beginning of the colonization the New World has realized nothing but suffering. When the supremacy of the 'white's' was established, slavery began. Millions of people were brought from their homes, from freedom to work for lazy Europeans on their land, which was unjustly taken. Many of the slaves died while traveling on board, many more while working on fields. It took almost hundred years for United States to abolish slavery, and when they did it the Ku Klux Klan was bom. Of course the Europe 'had' to do like USA; I am talking about inequality. Dark-skinned are still something less in some places. Like I said previously, in the beginning of the 20th century the Great Wars happened to the world and Europe and after the second one the NATO was founded and the consequence was 'Iron Curtain' and Cold war. And this was still going on twenty-five years ago! It is not strange that people wanted to unite in peace and not in war. There came a whisper of a united Europe... and so the European Union was born.
I am not just talking about the past; I am reviewing the facts about us to see more clearly what to expect from the future. Think how the future looks if you consider the past? What guaranties do we have that nothing like the World Wars will ever again occurred to our living space? Well, none if you think twice. And how does it look today?
The European Union has fifteen member states. These are still holding to their subjective role when they are supposed to lose some of their power; EU is showing it's egoistic pose toward Candidates. It looks impossible for candidate states that their role will be equal. This can quickly bring to a discontent and the dreams might be forgotten for ages. How should there ever be development of a new role of the united Europe if this Europe does not exist? I have to mention the famine around the world, especially in 3rd world countries. We live in an age of fear, of terrorism. It came because of the all kinds of oppressions, even national. Some may say: 'So what!', but it is a problem because the people are letting this, European citizens too and this is creepy if we want to create a place of peace, freedom and development. Oh and I should point out that we did not for surly pass over the danger of extreme politics and people who would gain too much control or power to eradicate our efforts to bring people together.
So we know how it looks today and what were the foundations for present situation. In the rising of the capitalism, it happens often that people are exploited in Western Europe, where working force is getting expensive, the companies are withdrawing and firing people. They rather move their production to countries in development where they are fully engaged in exploitation. If people are paid a dollar an hour and the product costs 20 or 25 dollars the profit is higher than if the more expensive labor is being used. Every company needs to have profit, but not by using people. It is frightening that normal family men and women are running this. They have social and political influence and people are following them. How can this be a good prophecy for our Europe?
We long after peace, stability freedom and they can be reached, but only when the whole planet has those things. We must bring discrimination down and put up equality in life, but not just in our laws, but in our mind. This is the way we have to see our future or our future will be lost. And one needs to be considered - the development of democracy. Today it is in high level, but surely higher can be reached. I am not the one to define how this can be achieved or how shall we change democracy. I only think it would be good to consider them. And perhaps there is a better way of leadership than democracy. I think our descendants will be so free-minded that such things could be done. We are probably just living in an era too much remembering populist politics and effects they had. We are just not ready for such actions; or are we?
It is clear; our past is not a good prophet, our recent ways of thinking, doing and acknowledging is not a good prophet either and our expectations are so great and positive. Ell, for some it may all look fine, but in principal I do not think we are so lucky. We will have very hard work if we want to accomplish all. Only then united, equal we may do whatever we want. Before this happens we will not be able to influence the international politics. We have to solve the internal affairs to be able to fix external ones. We cannot determine our relationship towards other regions and countries and we cannot do anything to contribute to peace if regions on our ground are still fighting for nothing. How could we possibly demand the end of wars if they are still going on few hundred kilometres away? It is clear that before we will not change ourselves we cannot demand such things from others. Europe can devote something to peace, stability and sustainable development if it thinks hard of the past and uses that knowledge for future decisions. When we are able to do that everything will lie ahead of us.

razlaga

Za komentar je premalo prostora. Dobro preberite prispevek in pri tem pazite, da vas ne zabriše s stola. Ob tem se je treba zavedati, ob kakšni priložnosti je bil prispevek posredovan. Da ne pozabim – v razpisu za sodelovanje na Konvenciji mladih je med pogoji navedeno aktivno znanje angleškega jezika. Sramota! Pa veliko zabave vam želim! (nn)

mnenje

Ja, to res ni ravno mojstrovina. Sem prenehala brati po par vrsticah, je preveč boleče. Če naj bi to bilo aktivno znanje angleščine, se nam slabo piše v prihodnosti. (Maja Prevolnik)

pripomba

Ne, res ni mojstrovina. Poleg sumljive angleščine je za besedilo značilno še skrajno površno in stereotipno poznavanje zgodovine. Primer: People died in millions, not just soldiers, innocent people were also killed. Why? Just to please some greedy old presidents and generals who wanted 'best' for their nation and Europe. Prosim lepo, saj vendar ni šlo za sestanek komsomola. (rs)

mnenje

Haa, haa, haa, briljantno! Koliko je pa star mladi avtor prispevka? Sedem? (mp)

odgovor

Če je do 10, mu ne zamerim. :)) (Vesna Žagar)

pripomba

Super. Glede na vehementne komentarje sem pričakoval, da poznate vsaj starost avtorja. Brez besed ... kako lahko kritizirate tako vsevprek? Egotrip, ej! En nasvet: pred izlivom gneva si poskusite zamisliti, ali ste svoj srd sposobni zabrisati nadebudnemu mladcu ali mladenki v fris ... In nn: če je dovolj prostora za tako dolg članek, ga je tudi za komentar, ki bi bil v tem primeru več kot dobrodošel. (miha)

odgovor

Spoštovani Miha! Zelo mi je žal, da nisem že prej odgovoril na vaše vprašanje. Avtor besedila je star okoli 18 let in obiskuje 4. letnik gimnazije v Ljubljani. S podrobnostmi in komentarjem nisem želel moriti ljudji, ki berejo pripevke na mojstru. Razlog je v tem, da besedilo pravzaprav niti ne potrebuje preobširnega komentarja. Vse bi bilo odveč. Pa se bom v stavku ali dveh poskušal potruditi (za vas, dragi Miha), da pokomentiram to stvaritev. Torej, besedilo je napisano v izjemno slabi angleščini, avtor o koherentnosti menda ni še niti slišal, vsebinsko je brezpomensko ... joj, resnično se mi zdi čisto odveč zapravljati čas s komentiranjem. Dragi Miha, če pa imate mogoče sami toliko časa, pa še enkrat (objektivno) preberite prispevek, in vsebina vas bo zagotovo le vzpodbudila h komentarju in ne samo protekciji neodgovornega in nesposobnega avtorja – pa najsi je star 16 ali 18! (nn)

dodatek

Če želite, vam lahko posredujem tudi ime in priimek avtorja. Ali pa si mojstrovino ogledate kar sami. (nn)

odgovor

Se popolnoma strinjam, da zadeva ni ravno briljantna. Vendar pa vseeno mislim, da bi za kakršno koli tehtnejšo kritiko bilo treba poznati tudi ozadnje, v katerem je prispevek nastal. Saj navsezadnje (vsaj taka je bila praksa v mojih letih na gimnaziji) je vse skupaj lahko šlo tudi skoze roke prof. angleščine, kar pa pomeni, da je treba ves bes usmeriti v drugo smer. Pa še nekaj, Miha ima popolnoma prav, brezpredmetno je kritizirati nekaj, česar potem avtor kritike vsaj nekako ne poskuša razložiti. Tudi tako se pokaže »aktivno« znanje jezika. Vem, da tale pripomba ne sodi ravno zraven, pa vendar ... Zakaj je treba reagirati skoraj užaljeno, če si kdo upa povedati nekaj besed tudi čez tu objavljene kritike? Saj se da vse povedati na lep način in resnično ni treba nikogar žaliti ali poniževati. (Betka)

odgovor

Čestitke vsem, ki ste kritizirali članek; brez dvoma zelo spodbudno. Dajmo udrihat po mladih, da bodo šli ja s polno mero optimizma naprej. Sam imam že vrsto let prevajalskih let pod pasom, vse življenje se že ukvarjam z angleščino in se še prekleto dobro zavedam, da sem na začetku prej hodil po napačni poti kot po pravi. Če je avtor res star 18 let, mu ne morem prav nič zameriti. Se popolnoma strinjam, da gre za neodgovornost avtorja, ampak lepo vas prosim, da je nesposoben? Komentar je popolnoma odveč. Se morda ne zavedate, da je tak gnev prej odraz vas, kot pa avtorja samega? (Damjan Zorc)

odgovor

Čisto razumem človeka, ki je objavil to besedilo. Če drži to, da je avtor star 18 in da je gimnazijec, gre tukaj za razmeroma šibak izdelek. Seveda upoštevajoč, da je namenjen širši množici (Konvencija mladih). Mislim, da tu ne gre za tlačenje mladih potencialov, temveč za kritiko, ki je v tem primeru popolnoma na mestu. (Petra)

odgovor

Spoštovani Betka, Damjan ter drugi somišljeniki! Zaradi pomanjkanja časa in ker sem mnenja, da so razpredanja na temo prispevka odvečna, samo še zadnji odgovor. Izdelek je na razmeroma nizki ravni (jezikovno in vsebinsko) – o tem ni dvoma. Zaradi dejstva, da je bil prispevek posredovan ob tako – tudi v evropskem merilu – pomembnem dogodku, je kritika (po mojem neprofesionalnem mnenju) toliko bolj upravičena. Ali je prav, da ob mednarodnih priložnostih pride do objave tako nedovršenih besedil, pa sedaj prepuščam vam. (Boštjan)

mnenje

Dobro povedano, Boštjan! Besedilo namreč skoraj nima vsebine, napisano je povsem naivno in po principu »vstavi besede iz izbrane teme v vzorec za udaren govor«. V besedilo na taki ravni ne sodijo niti retorična vprašanja, ki jih dandanes umni profesorji k sreči v kali zatrejo, preden se pojavijo v esejih, kjer nimajo kaj iskati. In to je esej, retoričnih vprašanj pa v njem kar mrgoli. Argumenti: »saj je še mlad, kritika ga bo demotivirala« niso na mestu, ko gre za besedilo na tako visoki ravni. (Mhc)

Zabavna oddaja, 1. september 2002, 20.00

izvirnik

welcome drink

izgovarjava

uilkam drink

razlaga

Morda to ni prava stran za to, toda v zadnjem času sem opazil več takšnih polomljenih oz. nemogočih izgovarjav od ljudi, ki bi morali to vsekakor obvladati. S tem predvsem mislim na radijske voditelje, saj je tam zvok vse, kar sprejemamo – na TV lahko lepa in privlačna slika vsaj malo ublaži takšne bedarije. Za zabavo naj navedem nekaj cvetk z naših radijskih postaj:
1. Radio Dur; napovedovalka je govorila o skupini The Who, njihovem bobnarju Keithu Moonu in njihovi uspešnici My Generation; izgovorjava: kejt mun, maj generejšn.
2. Radio Orion; napoved pesmi Every Breath You Take; izgovorjava: evri brid ju tejk.
3. Radio SPK; omemba albuma Anđeli se dosađuju (Parni valjak) in pesmi Lutka sa naslovne strane (Riblja čorba) v isti minuti; izgovarjava (velike črke pomenijo naglašeni zlog): ANđeli se DOsađuju, LUtka sa nasLOUne STRAne. (D. Cekić)

odgovor

Vem, da težim, ampak Lutka sa naslovne strane je od Zabranjeno pušenje. (Grega Fajdiga)

odgovor

Jaz tudi vem, da težim, ampak pesem Lutka sa naslovne strane je res od Riblje čorbe. (Ines Kunšič)

odgovor

Ines in Grega, oba imata prav. Pesem Lutka sa naslovne strane izvajata obe omenjeni skupini, vendar ne gre za priredbo. Sicer tukaj to sploh ni pomembno, pravzaprav niti sam ne vem, zakaj sem izvajalca omenil. (D. Cekić)

The Hidden History of Egypt, 13. oktober 2002, 22.00

izvirnik

We are here in Saccara in the desert...

prevod

Tole je Sahara, puščava, ki ...

razlaga

Na posnetku je bila znamenita nepopolna piramida iz Sakare. Četudi je prevajalec delal po tonu, je razlika v izgovorjavi besede Saccara in Sahara tudi v angleščini očitna. In če človek prevaja poljudno zgodovinsko zadevo, naj odpre kakšno knjigo. (tb)

odgovor

We are here in Saqqara... kvečjemu. (ab)

Projekt padel v vodo, 4. september 2002

prevod

kibernetična kavarna

razlaga

Sicer sem se odločil, da napake v časopisih preprosto ignoriram, ampak tale cvetka si pa zasluži mesto v tem spletnem kranclju. (bg)

odgovor

Cyber cafe? Omenjeni prevod se sicer pogosto uporablja, o ustreznosti bi se pa morda dalo razpravljati ... (Toni Kosec)

odgovor

KDOR KOLI OPOZARJA NA NAPAKE, BI BILO ZELO DOBRO, DA SAM NAVEDE USTREZNI PREVOD. VESOLJNA SLOVENIJA VE, DA JE MED PROFESIONALNIMI PREVAJALCI OBILO TAKIH, KI MENIJO, DA LAHKO TO DELO OPRAVIJO BREZ USTREZNE IZOBRAZBE. IZPLAČA SE VSEM: NIZKA CENA ZA NAROČNIKA, DOHODEK ZA IZVAJALCA STORITEV PRIDOBLJEN BREZ TRUDA,IN NE NAZADNJE NESKONČNI UŽITEK ZA TISTE NESAMOZAVESTNEŽE, KI SADISTIČNO UŽIVAJO PRI ISKANJU NAPAK. NACIONALNA BOLEZEN. (EKSAKTA SNJEŽANA MUZICA S.P. ŠOLSKA 34 6000 KOPER)

odgovor

Moje stališče pa je vseeno, da je vedno bolj prav, če je prav, kot pa če je narobe. Vsaj kadar se teksti pišejo v branje, naj bi bili pravilni, ne pa pisani po sistemu VSAJ ENA NAPAKA V VSAK SLOVENSKI STAVEK.
Menim tudi, da se na tem Mojstru kar precej naučimo skozi SADISTIČNO opozarjanje na napake.
Za konec upam, da ne bom zdaj še jaz »ošprehan«, ker se bom podpisal samo z nickom. (Nick)

odgovor

Kot je že Slaven Kalebić enkrat omenil, če ne znaš narediti boljšega avta, kot je mercedes, še ne pomeni, da na mercedesu ne smeš kritizirati tega in onega! Napaka je napaka, pa če kdo pove ustreznejši prevod ali ne. No, v tem primeru ne gre ravno za napako, neustreznost je pa že. (ab)

vprašanje

Prosim, bi hotel biti kdo tako prijazen in mi povedati, kako se slovensko prav reče cyber cafe? Mene zanima pravilen prevod, ne razprava o profesionalizmu in sadizmu. (Mateja)

odgovor

V Leksikonu računalništva in informatike najdemo pojem kiberneten, poleg tega pa še kiberkavarna, kiberstroj, kiberščak, kibernetika, kiberpank, kiberpankovec, kiberseks, kibernetni prostor in kiborg. (mp)

odgovor

Osebno vsekakor menim, da se glede vseh omenjenih prevodov še najbolj strinjamo glede »kibernetične kavarne« :-| ... (Toni Kosec)

odgovor

Pojma kibernetičen in cyber nista ravno identična, pa ne bi zdaj o tem. Glede na to, kar se počne v tovrstni ustanovi (i.e. deska po spletu), bi bil morda bolj primeren izraz spletna kavarna. In kolikor spremljam medije, se mi zdi, da se je prav ta izraz najbolj prijel. (Igor Harb)

odgovor

Kaj je pa narobe s kiberkavarno? (Grega Fajdiga)